Daci-Dutch-Deutsch; Bessi-Vesi-VisiGoths


 

Grimm and Müllenhoff were the two great masters of Teutonic philology. Jacob Grimm stoutly maintained that Getae and Daci (Dacians) were identical with Goths and Danes. He had used the word "germanisch" only rarely, and employed more often the word "deutsch". In English the terms "German" (deutsch) and "Dutch" (niederländisch) have acquired in everyday speech a special signification, so that for the whole field the name "Teutonic" has been used.

The Gets ( Getae), closely related to the Dacians and said to be one and the same people, were inhabiting the banks of the lower Danube region and nearby plains and are first appearing in the 6th century BC. They were known as expert mounted archers and devotees of the deity Zalmoxis. Emperor Augustus’ scribe, Strabon notes that "they speak the same language as the Dacians".
Starting with Jordanes, who borrowed the Getic history for the Goths, because of the similarity of the names, Getae were considered to be the same with the migrating tribes called Goths. In the Middle Age, the Dacians and the Danes were considered one and the same people. A historian wrote in the eleventh century about "Dacia which is called today Denmark" and about its inhabitants, the "Goths" who had "many kings generously gifted with the knowledge of the admirable philosophies, as Zeuta and Dichineus as well as Zalmoxis and many others". But Dichineus is Dicineus as referred by Iordanes, a great Dacian priest and king of the kings. We can also observe that the name Dutch of the inhabitants of Holland has the same pronunciation as the Romanian word "Daci" designating the Dacians.

Bessi-Thracians in Moesia Inferior>>Vesi in Greek>>VisiGoth invented by Cassiodorus
 
Because in the Greek alphabet "V" is written "B", the Vesi were also called Bessi. The Bessi were an independent Thracian tribe who lived in a territory ranging from Moesia to Mount Rhodope in southern Thrace, but are often mentioned as dwelling about Haemus, the mountain range that separates Moesia from Thrace. Herodotus described them as a sort of priestly-caste among the Satrae, the Bessi being interpreters of the prophetic utterances given by a priestess in an oracular shrine of Dionysus located on a mountain-top, which is thought to be Perperikon.
In Strabo, however, the Bessi are described as the fiercest of the independent Thracian tribes, dwelling on and around the Haemus range, and possessing the greater part of the area around that mountain chain.
Cassiodorus virtually invented the name Visigoth (from the Vesi Goths) in the late fifth century.
The king and the leading strata of the Goths who settled in Aquitaine called themselves Vesi, that is, the "good ones."
 

Bessi, From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Bessi (Ancient Greek, "Βῆσσοι" or "Βέσσοι") were an independent Thracian tribe who lived in a territory ranging from Moesia to Mount Rhodope in southern Thrace, but are often mentioned as dwelling about Haemus, the mountain range that separates Moesia from Thrace and from Mount Rhodope to the northern part of Hebrus[1]. Herodotus[2] described them as a sort of priestly-caste among the Satrae, the Bessi being interpreters of the prophetic utterances given by a priestess in an oracular shrine of Dionysus located on a mountain-top, which is thought to be Perperikon[citation needed] though Herodotus us thought to be exaggerating on the mysterious rites of the Bessi.The capital of the Bessi was Uscudama ,(modern Turkey)[3].

In Strabo, however, the Bessi[4] are described as the fiercest[5] of the independent Thracian tribes, dwelling on and around the Haemus range, and possessing the greater part of the area around that mountain chain.He calls them brigands among brigands and that they were addicted to plunder.[6].

The Diobesi are thought to be a union of sorts between the Besai and the Dii.[7] Pliny the Elder reveals that there were several divisions of the Bessi.[8]

Appian writes that they fearfully surrendered to Augustus.[9]

Towards the end of the 4th century AD, Nicetas the Bishop of Dacia brought the gospel to "those mountain wolves", the Bessi. Reportedly his mission was successful, and the worship of Dionysus and other Thracian gods was eventually replaced by Christianity.

A Thracian personal name Bessus (attested in Northern Montenegro along with other Thracian names such as Teres) is considered to have the same etymon as Bessi (Wilkes, 1982).

In the 11th century Strategikon text, Cecaumenos the Byzantine historian described the Vlachs south of the Danube (Aromanians) as being descendants of ancient thracian tribes one of them being the Bessi.

 

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6 Responses to Daci-Dutch-Deutsch; Bessi-Vesi-VisiGoths

  1. Viktor says:

    Bun articol, Alex! Incerc sa aflu niste date despre originile poporului roman si istoricul spatiului dacic, articolul tau e binevenit. Se pere ca in engleza sunt poate mai multe informatii decat in romaneste. Multumesc.

  2. Mike says:

    I have noticed the same relation between Visi Goths and Bessi Goths
    Jordanes writes in Latin…. “Vesi”….which easily can be = Bessi
    Also when they arived in Spain the latin writers are referring to them as ” Wala”….which suggest a relationship to Romanian or Latinazed people.
    Curiously enought Jordanes never mentioned the fact that Bessi were Christianzed at the end of the IV cent AD

    • Viktor says:

      Hi Mike, it’s a very interesting topic to me… may I ask you please where did you find that “the latin writers are referring to them as ” Wala”. Could you mention any Latin writer who mentioned that? Maybe two names?
      Would be very useful for myself this info.

      Cheers, mate…

      • Mike says:

        Bosnia ——Bessi
        Bocniaks as the offsprings of the Thracian Tribes “Bess”
        However, and not all medieval works the identity of the rulers and their subjects
        Thus, while Marvro Orbini ascribes a German heritage to the Bosnian Kotromanic dynasty ,he connects the people of Bosnia to the ancient Thracian tribe, the Bessi
        Humanist writers of the 15th 16th centuries like Bonfini and Munster where the firdt ones to connect the toponym :Bosnia” with the Thracian tribe Bessi
        The idea was further developed by Orbini

        Pechenegs were known under an alternative name “Bessi”
        That doesn’t imply that the Pechenegs or Cumans were Thracians.
        Only the ruling class

      • Mike says:

        Hi Viktor,
        Here is the book you asked before

        History of the Goths
        By Herwig Wolfram

        “….A alter “Germanic” addition to a source…..mentions the Romanized Goths of Spain or Italy as Valagothi (Roman Goths)…”

        Note And Valamir is called Valameriaci
        The Goths couldn’t be Romanized that fast
        Also to Romanise so many countries?, France,Spain,Portugal,Romania
        No way in the world
        Most likely those people who migrated to the countries mentioned before were Thracians
        And….we don’t know what language the Celts spoke

  3. Maniu says:

    I guess I am late with an answer.I just forgot abut this posting

    The name of the Book is ” History of the Goths”
    by Herwig Wolfram

    page 26

    “….In the second half of the fith century the people we call Visigoths and Ostrogoths were also personalized. In 484 the Ostrogoths appeard as the Valameriaci…..”

    “….What ethnic elements made up the Visigoths?Onomastics provides the following evidence (1) in the kingdom of Toulouse we find pure Amal names,(2) it is possible that a Thracian name of Bess….appear in the area of Toulouse”

    There are more in “Language and History int Early Germanic World”
    By D.H.Green

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