Maps of Neolithic Cultures–The Romanian Etnogenesis *1 -‘Latin’ languages have I origin.


http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml

Approximative timeline of the origins of haplogroups found in Europe

  • J => 30,000 years ago (in the Middle East)
  • E1b1b => 26,000 years ago (in southern Africa)
  • I => 25,000 years ago (in the Balkans)
  • R1a1 => 21,000 years ago (in southern Russia)
  • R1b => 20,000 yrs ago (around the Caspian Sea or Central Asia)
  • G => 17,000 years ago (between India and the Caucasus)
  • I2 => 17,000 years ago (in the Balkans)
  • J2 => 15,000 years ago (in northern Mesopotamia)
  • I2b => 13,000 years ago (in Central Europe)
  • N1c1 => 12,000 years ago (in Siberia)
  • I2a => 11,000 years ago (in the Balkans)
  • R1b1b2 => 10,000 years ago (north or south of the Caucasus) 
  • E-V13 => 10,000 years ago (in the Balkans)
  • I2a2 => 7,500 years ago (in the Dinaric Alps)
  • I1 => 5,000 years ago (in Scandinavia)

In urma cu 7-8000 de ani cam toata Europa era ‘albastra’: Europa la nord de Alpi-Cultura Tardenoisian-I,I2,I2b; Italia si Dalmatia-Printed Cardium Pottery-I,I2,I2a. G2a vine din Vestul Marii Negre si se infiltreaza prin Grecia si Blacani, valoare nesemnificativa in Romania (1%) si in jurul ei, doar in Austria ajunge la 8%, Cipru 9% etc.

In timpul ultimei Ice Age, Europa a fost acoperita de gheata, doar Balcanii (si S Spaniei) au ramas locuite. In Balcani s-a format I-25.000 din care tot in Balcani s-a format I2-17.000, care a urcat in sus spre Bazinul Dunarii devenind I2b-13000. Tot din Balcani a pornit si I2a-11.000, toate aceste grupe I s-au extins apoi in restul Europei.

I si J provin din IJ. J2-15.000 pare sa corespunda expansiunii fermierilor din Mesopotania spre Balcani, expansiune care apoi se reface mai tirziu, pe aceleasi zone, prin coloniile feniciene si grecesti din Mediterana. In prezent haplogrupul J2 are maxime in Creta-44% si Cipru-37%, in Grecia-25%, Romania-24%, Bulgaria-20% in timp ce in Ungaria este numai 7%, Macedonia-12%, Croatia doar 3.5%.

File:Distribution Haplogroup J2 Y-DNA.svg

AntikeGriechen1
Linia E este o linie veche care s-a dezvoltat separat de toate celelate, initial erau fermieri veniti in neolitic din Asia Mica. E-V13 in Balcani a aparut-10.000. In prezent E1b1b are un virf in Grecia+27%, Macedonia-23%, apoi in Bosnia –14.5% si in fine Ungaria-9.5%, in Romania avem un 6% semnificativ dar secundar. Epicentrul haplogrupului E este Albania si de aici s-a extins in jur!
eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europe_map  >> Sa incercam sa citim ce spun aceste harti impreuna cu tabelul haplogrupurilor.

Romania – 4 haplogrupuri in proportii aproape egale: I2a=17.5%, R1a=22%, R1b=22%, J2=24%. Sa vedem la ce culturi, migratii corespund, ce semnificatie au. Ar fi interesant sa avem aceste date pe Transilvania, Moldova si Valahia separat. Chiar si in Ungaria care nu are munti sa separe regiuni, sint diferente mari de la o zona la alta.

I2a-17.5% in Ro pare sa fie cea mai veche componenta. Virfuri de I2a gasim in prezent in Bosnia 50%, Croatia 42%, Serbia 29%, Bulgaria 20%, Macedonia 18%, Ukraina 12%, Bielarus 18%, Ungaria 15%. Daca din Ukraina se ia zona care corespunde la cultura Cucuteni, pe acea zona procentajul este mai mare. I2a se suprapune cu procentaje maxime pe zona Vinca si Cucuteni, vezi articolul  aleximreh.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/i2a-vincacucuteni-9000bc-i1-scandinavia-3000bc.

In urma cu 7000-8000 de ani, Cultura Thessalian Neolithic acopera bazinul Carpato-Dunarean, Balkanii pina la Grecia actuala, inclusiv Macedonia dar fara Croatia (I2a2-7,500), inclusiv Ukraina de sud si Panonia. Din moment ce toate grupele I au aparut in Balkani si in bazinul Dunarii si de aici s-au extins in restul Europei, putem presupune logic ca si in Cultura Thessalian tot grupele I erau dominante, probabil I2a. Dupa I2a probabil J2 era cea mai importanta si in fine linia E se extindea in jurul Albaniei dar in Romania cu procentaj nesemnificativ totusi. In acea perioada R1a si R1b nu existau in Europa.

Pe harta urmatoare, 5500-6000, se vad cultura Cucuteni-Tripolye si Cultura Black&Grey Pottery separate de Eastern Linear Pottery. Pe alt site am vazut Bulgaria (Boian-Maritsa) inclusa in cultura Vinca. Tabletele de la Tartaria din Transilvania similare cu inscrisurile Vinca arata totusi o relatie intre Transilvania si malul drept al Dunarii. Oricum marea zona Thessalian pare atacata prin cele doua zone care fiind zone de cimpie vor fi intotdeuna zone de patrundere ale migratiilor. Cimpia panonica continuata cu Transilvania si Banatul este Cultura Eastern Linear in timp ce pe linga Marea Neagra din stepa, patrunde deja R1a-cultura Suvorovo-Cernavoda.

Pe urmatoarea harta, 5000-4500, zona I2a pare mai refacuta, deja avem denumirea de Old Europe. Dar prin canalele de cimpie, patrund in continuare influente. Din nordul Anatoliei incep sa patrunda dinspre sud R1b, care colonizeaza vestul Marii Negre, trec peste munti si in Transilvania par sa realizeze Cultura Proto Italo-Celtica. Poate acestia sint Proto Dacii, un amestec de I2a si R1b care se intind si in Panonia!?!?

Amestecul de R1a (sciti) si R1b (proto-celti) care realizeaza in Ukrajna Cultura Yamna, pe teritoriul Romniei este si mai pronuntat pt ca aici din stepa patrund dinspre nord R1a dar R1b vin si din nordul Marii Negre – R1b1b2a 4500ybp si in acelasi timp si din sudul Marii Negre – R1b1b2 5000ybp. Poate pentru prima oara in Europa se face aici (in Tracia pontica, Bulgaria de Est, Dobrogea, Moldova de Est si Basarabia) amestecul care a ajuns sa domine Europa de azi, intre R1a si R1b pe un fond vechi de I2a!!! I2a ar fi vechea cultura matriarhala pasnica a lui Gimbutas in timp ce R1a si R1b ar corespunde la indo-europenii razboinici, societatea patriarhala care a distrus vechile culturi nerazboinice.

Harta urmatoare 4500-4000: in timp ce marea stepa pare sa fie dominata de galben – ‘proto scitzii’ R1a – Abashevo&Corded Ware, pe teritoriul Thessaliei continua amestecul I2a cu R1b. R1b care probabil a invadat, domina militar dar se amesteca cu I2a realizind culturile care pe harta sint cu rosu – Ezero, Cernavoda, Cotsofeni, Glina, Otomani, Bubanj. In zonele de munte I2a rezista mai bine, dinspre nord pe malul estic al Marii Negre continua sa patrunda R1a. In vestul Marii Negre primul strat I2a este acoperit de al doilea strat R1a si de al treilea strat care domina militar, ‘politic’ R1b, pare sa se realizeze primul amestec de haplogrupuri apropiat de structura genetica actuala. In orice caz zona I2a cu pete rosii R1b si influente R1a pe culoarul estic acopera si Macedonia, si Bulgaria si Ungaria si sudul Ukrainei.

In vecinatetea zonei Thessalia, in centrul Europei se formeaza o ‘pata mare’ rosie – Unetice Culture care pare sa fie focarul de unde a pornit marea cucerire R1b a Europei de Vest. Toata zona Europei de Vest care era albastra, vechea cultura megalitica I, incepe sa fie colonizata cu rosu. In nordul zonei Thessalia cu galben domina R1a pe teritoriul de astazi al Germaniei de Est, al Poloniei, Ukrainei de nord, Belarus, Rusia.

Harta urmatoare 4000-3500: peste teritoriul Romaniei, de la N la S trece R1a, greco-macedonieii. Se diferentiaza Illyria, Tracia si Macedonia. De la E la V peste teritoriul Romaniei continua sa treaca R1b care colonizeaza masiv toata Europa de Vest – Tumulus Culture si Iberian Bronze Age. Marea colonizare celta se vede si in prezent prin virfuri de R1a: 72.5% Scotia, 69% Spania, 86% Tara Bascilor, Galicia 63%, Wales 82%, Franta 61%.

Harta urmatoare 3200-3000: marea pata din centrul Europei care a iradiat R1b devine cultura Hallstatt, de la ea radiaza spre sud Italicii si Dorienii.

Cred ca se poate spune ca etnogeneza era in mare parte terminata in urma cu 2000 de ani.

Suggested map of Y-DNA distribution in Europe around 100 CEDistribution of haplogroup R1b in EuropeR1a-map

Sa ne gindim la popoarele asa zis latine, ‘romanice’, ce au avut in comun in ultimii 10.000 de ani, de ce vorbesc limbi similare. Singura perioada in care ele au fost omogene ca y-dna a fost perioada veche cind toata Europa era omogen I. De asemenea procentaje mari de J2 intilnim in Grecia/Balcani – Ro/24%, Bulgaria/20%, Grecia/25% si Italia de S/23.5% si Centrala/19.5% cu maxime mai mari in Sicilia,Creta,Cipru.

In urma cu 7-8000 ani Romania si Italia erau I2a in timp ca Galia si Spania erau I2b. Aceasta corespunde poate la asemanarea mai mare dintre romana veche si latina vulgara veche. Conform teoriei continuitatii inceputa de Alinei toate aceste popoare NU au fost romanizate, romanii au cucerit popoare care vorbeau limbi similare si pe baza acestei inrudiri s-a facut cucerirea, adiministrarea si integrarea lingvistica/culturala. Grecia era tot I2a+J2b, ceea ce ar corespunde la inrudirea/asemanarea dintre greaca veche si latina vulgara, asa zisa limba koine universala in Imperiul Roman in care s-a scris si Biblia. In acest peisaj dominant I, cu influente mari J2 mai ales pe coastele Mediteranei, haplogrupul E-V13 are o zona de influenta relativ mica, cu epicentru in Albania, cu influente mari in Grecia, Macedonia dar deja cu influente mici in Dacia Mare si Italia (totusi 18% in Italia de S).

Indraznim sa presupunem ca limba vechii europe era o limba I, o limba proto-latina, din care s-a format limba daca, latina vulgara si greaca veche  (wikipedia.org/Koine_Greek). Aceasta limba a ramas dominanta in Romania, si s-a pastrat cel mai bine in Romania pt ca Romania a fost totusi ferita de munti. Marile migratii R1a si R1b au schimbat populatia, dar la fiecare migratie, cultura si limba I2a a reusit sa absoarba socurile, sa se pastreze, chiar daca in prezent genetic I2a reprezinta doar o cincime, in proportii egale cu cu J2, R1a si R1b.

J2 nu a venit intr-un singur val, J2 a venit odata cu fermierii neolitici care au migrat din Mesopotania, apoi cu colonizarile grecesti si in fine cu cucerirea Bizantina si cu perioada fanariota. La fel R1a a venit initial doar pe culoarul de migratie N>S de linga Marea Neagra, in neolitic 5500-6000, apoi cu trecerea spre Grecia a Greco-Macedonienilor, peste Romania, 2000-1500bce si in fine cu marile migratii spre sud cumane si slave, de la sfirsitul Imperiului Bizantin..

Migratiile R1b au fost in si mai multe valuri, sedimentari, de fiecare data fiind absorbiti de stratul vechi, primar I2a: 1) –5000, prin sudul Marii Negre, prin Anatolia spre Europa Centrala, 2) –4500, prin Nordul Marii Negre. Interesant ca aceste colonizari R1b nu au realizat o cultura compacta, omogena pe teritoriul proto-Daciei mari, ci mai multe culturi diferite, mai multe pete pe harta 4 ceea ce ar confirma ca amestecul I2a cu R1b a fost mai curind o absorbire, nu o dominare totala R1b, pastrindu-se in final limba I2a ca limba dominanta, cu continuitate de 8-10.000 ani. 3) a continuat in epoca bronzului trecerea spre Europa de Vest peste Romania dar in timp ce in Europa de Vest culturile R1b au devenit dominante in proto-Dacia nu a fost dominanta cultura R1b, inca o ‘dovada’ ca stratul primar I2a, care a fost suficient de puternic ca sa porneasca de aici colonizarea I a intregii Europe Vechi a fost in continuare suficient de puternic sa absoarba si trecerile R1b. 4) a urmat valul invers al colonizarii celte de la V la E Conform dovezilor arheologice aceasta colonizare celta a fost suficient de puternica in Transilvania dar nu a trecut muntii. Impotriva acestor celti a luptat Burebista, impingindu-i inapoi spre Europa de Vest. Si in fine 5) ultima sedimentare R1b din Evul Mediu – colonizarile de sasi din Transilvania.

In prezent R1b e chiar putin mai mare in procente decit I2a in structura populatiei in Romania, dar sa socotim ca aceasta acumulare R1b nu s-a facut intr-un singur pas ci in multe mii de ani, in valuri succesive. Daca R1b ar fi ajuns la paritate cu vechiul strat I2a dintr-o singura migratie/colonizare, atunci poate impactul ar fi fost suficient de puternic  sa schimbe limba. In unele zone din Europa de Vest impactul R1b a fost radical din primul val ajungind la procente de 50-60-80%. In Romania dupa mii de ani si multe valuri a ajuns doar la 22%.

In timp ce fondul I2a a ramas constant si masiv chiar daca s-a diminuat, valurile R1a si R1b au fost succesive si desigur in opozitie, R1a si R1b au fost opuse in toate aceste mii de ani impartind Europa in Europa de V si de E, pe teritoriul proto-Romaniei probabil anulindu-se oarecum reciproc.

Din Balkani a fost colonizata toata Europa cu I, apoi a fost impactul J2 al fermierilor neolitici veniti din Mesopotania. Cu 6.000-5.500 de ani in urma, R1a a coborit spre S prin Nordul Marii Negre in timp ce R1b a urcat spre N prin Sudul Marii Negre. In aceasta perioada amestecul de I2 si J2 realizeaza marea cultura din Italia mare – Printed Cardium Pottery.

In urma cu 5000-4500 de ani pe teritoriul Romaniei s-au intilnit cu grupul I, grupurile R1a si R1b, ‘indo-europenii’ care au schimbat definitiv Europa, aici s-a realizat primul amestec de R1a cu R1b si cu I. Acest amestec a continuat fara sa elimine fondul I2a. Eu doar fac o citire a acestor harti, care nu stiu cita recunoastere stiintifica definitiva au.

De asemenea repet, indraznesc sa presupun ca limbile latine au origine I sau I+J, chiar daca vad si eu multe intrebari, probleme. Nici R1a (sciti, sarmati, slavi) nici R1b (celti, germanici) nu pot fi la originea limbilor latine. Ma bazez pe citeva fapte.

Cele mai multe migratii, cuceriri militare, si in binecunoscutul Ev Mediu (500-1.000dc) dar si in neolitic, au fost cuceriri militare facute de nuclee dure care au fost ulterior absorbite, noi-veniti fiind in numar mic fata de popoarele cucerite. R1a si R1b au ajuns sa domine Nordul Europei in timp ce Sudul Europei a putut pastra mai bine fondul I. Fondul acesta I a fost cel mai puternic in Balkani unde s-a format initial si de unde s-a facut colonizarea I a intregii Europe Vechi. De asemenea odata cu retragerea ghetii I s-a intins inspre Nord dar desigur ca a fost mai puternic in Sudul Europei unde a avut mai mult timp se creasca, sa se sedimenteze. Populatia din Nordul Europei formindu-se mai tirziu, evoluind mai putine mii de ani din cauza ultimei glaciatiuni, a putut fi dislocata mai usor de valurile R1a si R1b.

In timp ce marile sedimentari R1b au fost in neolitic pina la celti, o mare parte din sedimentarile R1a au fost mult mai tirzii, doar in Evul Mediu odata cu migratiile slave, cind etnogeneza era terminata. Dacia ocupata doar 14% pe o perioada foarte scurta nu avea cum sa fie romanizata. Deci Dacia vorbea deja o limba ‘proto-latina’ in urma cu 2.500 de ani creind conditii formarii Imperiului Burebista.

Poate ca pelasgii corespund la vechiul fond I2a+J2, ilirii la I2a2+E-V13, tracii sud dunareni fiind putin diferiti de cei nord dunareni prin influenta E-V13 mai mare. As indrazni sa presupun ca afluxul de vitalitate celta-R1b a fost esential pentru diferentierea dacilor de geti, la fel cum influxul de vitalitate R1a a fost esential pt diferentierea macedonienilor de grecii din sud, (‘prima slavizare’ a Balkanilor). Dacii au avut centrul de putere in Transilvania, celtii au colonizat Transilvania dar nu au trecut muntii. Dacii lui Decebal au stapinit toata Dacia dar dupa luptele cu Traian nu au fost sprijniti pina la capat de ‘dacii liberi’ de dincolo de munti chiar daca pina la urma au fost eliberati de ei.

Una din premizele de baza ale acestor presupuneri este continuitatea de aproape 10.000 de ani a populatiilor I, mai puternica in S Europei mai slaba in Nordul Europei unde populatiile s-au format mai tirziu si erau mai putin numeroase (retragerea ghetii). Cele mai multe migratii nu au insemnat eliminarea populatiilor vechi de noii veniti, mai ales in zonele I de unde a pornit colonizarea I a Europei. In urma cu 8000 de ani in Italia dominata de I2a s-a format cultura Printed Cardium Pottery care a rezistat 5.000 de ani chiar daca pe parcurs au aparut J2 si E-V13. Atit Dacia cit si Italia au pornit cu un fond puternic I2a-11.000 dupa ultima glaciatiune, au continuat mixul cu fermierii J2, care a fost  esential pt tehnologie dar fondul I2a a ramas dominant 5-6.000 de ani. Abia pe la 2500bce au ajuns sa fie mari sedimentarile R1b in Dacia si abia pe la 1.200bce a ajuns sa fie semnificativa colonizarea celta R1b in Nordul Italiei. Pina in perioada romana, fondul primar esential I2a de limba si populatie s-a format si pastrat 8-9.000 de ani, chiar daca au fost influente semnificative J2si R1b. In Italia au fost semnificative influentele E-V13 in timp ce in Dacia a inceput sedimentarea stratului R1a.

Imperiul Roman a fost paradoxal o ruptura mai mare pt Italia decit pt Dacia in ceea ce priveste structura genetica si lingvistica. Odata s-a impus de la Roma limba culta a aristocratiei in defavoarea latinei vulgare. Apoi Italia ca centru al Imperiului a fost nu numai napadita de legiunile, de aristocratia din colonii dar a ajuns si tinta cea mai dorita ‘barbarilor’. Procentajul I2a este foarte mic in prezent in Italia. Ramine de studiat si etnogeneza slavilor, felul in care zone cu concentratie mare I2a ‘au pierdut limba I2a’ si s-au slavizat ca limba.

Acest text este o ciorna, exprimarea poate fi corectata si mai ales este o schita in sensul ca se poate corecta continutul prin corelari, confruntari cu alte surse. Si in esenta nu este o teorie, este o citire a unor harti si tabele, o interpretare, niste presupuneri.


The peaceful mix betweeen Romanians and Hungarians is not unusual here in Transylvania, it is quite normal as most people here have a mixed origin. There are great similarities between Romania and Italy, same latin language is just showing the deep truth. Maybe the population that spread from Pannonia to the North and than came back as Magyars, were populations that departed S>N as I populations, took the language from N1c1 Finns than came back N>S mixed with R1a.

I like the idea of an old european society without wars, however there seems to be a transition in neolithic  to a society that invented the war. This happened becuase of new people or was it just a cultural change becuase of growing population fighting for resources?Gimbutas puts this change on ‘indo-europeans’ that came down N>S, the Kurgan hyp. Alinei sustains the continuity, I think we can not think the issues without the studies of Alinei&co – www.continuitas.org ; en.wikipedia.org/Paleolithic_Continuity_Theory.

I hope you can read with google translate the first part of this article about the eupedia studies, written in Romanian. ‘Nations’ are defined by languages, culture and genetics. In Balkans we can see populations with similar genetics but with very different languages – the magyars, the serbs, the romanians… Somewhere in the course of history the groups that dominated certain areas were able to impose their language. In other parts the final general gentic structure is the same but the old layers of population were able to absorb the conquerers and preserve their old language.

We can read the next ideas in the eupedia maps: after the last ice age, the Balkans and the Danube basin were the area from where all Europe was colonized with I people, I2a in the south (we could say proto-latins) and I2b in the north (proto-germanics). For many thousands of years between 10.000bc to 4.000bc they were the haplogroup that dominated all Europe. This haplogroup produced the old civilization of Europe – OldEurope in Old Dacia and Printed Cardium Pottery in Magna Italia and also this group I produced the Megalithic civilization that covered all Western Europe before the celts. I dare suggest that this group is responsible for the latin languages, the Romans just conquered peoples speaking similar languages, they did not latinized the Gaules, the Dacians, the Spaniards.

In the South Balkans the old E lines were strong, iradiated in Italy also but the E lines can not be responsible for latin languages as they covered only a limited part of Europe, with Albania in center, probably this line can be associated to ilyrians.

The J2 farmers coming from Mesopotania were important for all Mediterana, they were important for the technology they brought, for the commerce (fenicians, greeks..). But I guess that they were also absorbed. The present day genetic structure of people of Europe shows us a lot of facts, most migrations did not wiped out the conquered populations, most migrations just slowly modified the genetical structures, wave after wave, adding layer after layer of genetic sedimentations. In the general structure of the populations J2 probably was not dominant as it spread on the shores of sea first, see the present maps for J2, but maybe it was important for the formation of the Printed Cardium Culture. 

Anyhow most Europe for 5000 years after the last Ice Age had mostly I populations, only around 2800-2500bc the R1a pushed their way over East Europe into Central Europe. I would say that the Danubian area wich was strong enough in population to colonize all Europe with I groups was also strong enough later to absorb the R1a and R1b waves. In present day Europe R1b dominates Western Europe while R1a dominates Eastern Europe  but these group were not present in Europe before 4.000bc.

Romania has an equilibrated mix, around 20% out of each important european haplogroups I2a, J2, R1a and R1b. I2a was the basic layer, strong today in the areas occupied by old Cucuteni and Vinca cultures. The later accumulations of J2 were in several waves : neolithic mesopotanian farmers, greek colonizations, byzantium empire influence, fanariot governments under the Otoman Empire. Presently J2 and I2a are equal but J2 accumulated in waves that were absorbed, each J2 wave/layer being much smaller that the basic I2a layer.

Similarly R1a sedimentations were at the beggining mostly on the shores of the Black Sea, through the planes that were always a natural migration channel N to S. Always the mountains were strongholds for old populations. These old populations always had to hide away in the mountains during migrations that came down through the planes but than they were strong enough in numbers to come back after the big waves. Than the migrations that shaped the Greek civilization came down N>S: first the R1a wave that remained strong in Macedonia, later the Dorian R1b wave. These waves were not strong enough to displace what they found in their route, so the Macedonian R1a wave had to keep going on over Old Dacia, which included the south of the Danube, while the dorian R1b wave had to keep going on over Old Dacia  and over Macedonia (the previous wave) until they were able to find a population weak enough to be conquered. Most of the R1a sedimentation that we see today in the present day genetic structure of Romania took place only much later with the Slavic migrations (600-1000 after Christ). So these R1a sedimentations were also absorbed in Old Romania as the etnogenesis of ‘latin’ Romania was finished well before the big slavic waves, while the first R1a were either geographically limited to the plains of the Black Sea, either went over Romania to the Greek destination. R1a migrations that came down over Romania were strong enough to shape the Greek civilization and later all south slavic nations but were not able to displace Romanian latin people.

It is interesting that R1a coming down on the north of Black Sea and R1b coming up in the South of the Black Sea met in Romania for the first time with I/J populations. These 2 new groups that shaped all Europe later, mixed here for the first time with old I/J groups. Also it is strange how Romania that was in the path of all R1a migrations to the South and also in the path of all R1b migrations to the North and to the West of Europe, was able to keep its latin language. The R1b migrations were strong enough to become dominant in all Western Europe, which at that time was not so populated but were not able to displace Romanian populations. There were many R1b sedimentations in Romania. First for  3000 years, from 4000bc to 1000bc, R1b poured over Romania to the West until it filled all Western Europe. Than there was the celtic wave pouring back W>E, which was able to colonize partially Transylvania but was not able to cross Carpathian Mountains and was finally pushed back by the Dacian Empire of Burebista. Later in the Middle Ages R1b sedimentations continued in Romania through the German colonizations.

However as the Dacians with their Latin Language were already formed after the big E>W neolithic R1b waves, R1b can not be the origin of this Latin language just as well as R1a and J2 can not be the origin of Latin language. Thus Latin languages formed in Old Romania/Dacia and in Magna Italy can be only of I2a origin (with J2 mix). Both printed Cardium Culture and Terramare Culture that followed were basically I2a Cultures, after the Eupedia Maps. From 10.000bc after last Ice Age until 1.500bc Magna Italia was basically an I2a culture, with strong J2 and E1b1 influences. The J2 and E1b1 sedimentations were probably absorbed by the basic I2a populations which were more numerous, even if J2 colonies had military/political dominance in the South, mainly on the shores of Mediterana.

About Alex Imreh

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6 Responses to Maps of Neolithic Cultures–The Romanian Etnogenesis *1 -‘Latin’ languages have I origin.

  1. Vanalander says:

    Reblogged this on Vanaland.

  2. Pingback: RO – an I2 continuity since the Ice Age.The classical Dacian Culture-a fusion between the Old Dacians & the La Tene celts | Alex Imreh

  3. Pingback: RO – an I2 continuity since the Ice Age.The classical Dacian Culture – a fusion between the Old Dacians & the La Tene celts | Old Europe

  4. Pingback: Rumânia | Alex Imreh

  5. Pingback: 7000 years of history | Alex Imreh

  6. Pingback: 7000 years of history. Ro DNA:68% Old Europe & 29.5% Kurgan | Old Europe

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